> Ann,
<br/>> I was on Enbrel 50mg/week for 1 month and my NKu's went from >22 to
<br/>around 8 or so. I then went up to 75mg/week and after another month,
<br/>my NKu's were <4. I continued the Enbrel as I was doing an upcoming
<br/>IVF cycle. That cycle ended up being chemical, but I believe it was
<br/>because I did not do IVIg 2 days before transfer as is recommended. I
<br/>only did IVIg CD6. I went off the Enbrel and did another biopsy a few
<br/>months later and found more NKu's. Not as high as the original >22,
<br/>but still over 4. So I learned that no matter what, I needed to
<br/>control the NKu's with the Enbrel. I did another IVF with Enbrel
<br/>75mg/week and finally got pregnant, but more importantly, no m/c's so
<br/>far, which is my history. I chose to take Enbrel longer than most
<br/>through week 14. I think DS has you go off of it at HB or around week 8.
<br/>>
<br/>> I have heard of many Humira success stories in general. I do not
<br/>recall the specific reasons why each was using it, but if you have
<br/>NKu's, my best piece of advice is to stay on the anti-TNf-a drug as
<br/>long as possible. Either Humira or Enbrel. I would also do a biopsy
<br/>the month before you ttc, so you know you have them down <4. Humira
<br/>does work and you will see a reduction in NKu's. It may take you
<br/>longer since you have so many, but it will work. My personal
<br/>experience is with Enbrel, but I know DS likes Humira better. You
<br/>know, Dr. Beer had an Olympic Team. I think one of the criteria to get
<br/>in was NKu's >20. Not a team I wanted to join, but since I was there,
<br/>I chose to fight it very aggressively. One thing I never experienced
<br/>with Enbrel that I do hear happens a lot with any anti-TNF-a drug is
<br/>that it could flare your NK's. If your cytokines are low to begin
<br/>with, the Humira may actually flare your immune system a bit, so the
<br/>protocol has been to do IVIg in conjunction with the Humira.
<br/>>
<br/>> Hope that helped a little.
<br/>> Best of luck to you!!
<br/>> :)Liz
<br/>> ----- Original Message -----
<br/>> From: annhc07
<br/>> To: immunologysupport@yahoogroups.com
<br/>> Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 12:52 PM
<br/>> Subject: [immunologysupport] To Liz: re What Tests to diagnose NKUs ??
<br/>>
<br/>>
<br/>> Liz,
<br/>>
<br/>> My cytokines were TNF= 83 (16~84)and IFN-g= 21.8 (4~21). I have 20
<br/>> NKu. Dr. Stricker put me on Humira for 2 months (4 shots). I had 3
<br/>> shots already. I know everyone reacts to med differently, Enbrel and
<br/>> Humira are different med. But, could you tell me your treatment plan
<br/>> (Enbrel dosage and how long did you finally get the NKU down to <4)?
<br/>> Have you heard any other successful stories with Humira (20+ NKu)?
<br/>> Thank you. Ann
<br/>>
<br/>> --- In immunologysupport@yahoogroups.com, "Liz Lombardi"
<br/>> <alombardi@> wrote:
<br/>> >
<br/>> > Marilyn,
<br/>> > Some may answer your question with a "yes" that TH1Th2 is enough,
<br/>> but just my story....1 month before I had a biopsy, my cytokines were
<br/>> TNF-a = 28.7 (had to be below 30.6) and IFN-g = 20.4 (had to be below
<br/>> 20.5). Dr. Beer said he did not think I needed a biopsy. I did one
<br/>> anyway. The biopsy came back with over 22 NKu's seen (normal is below
<br/>> 4) DB said it was one of the worst he had ever seen and he was
<br/>> surprised that my cytokines were not higher.
<br/>> >
<br/>> > I immediately started Enbrel and my cytokines went down to 17.3 &
<br/>> 7.3, but when I did a 2nd biopsy, I still had too many NKU's despite
<br/>> the low TH1 & TH2. I had less than before, but not near the <4 I
<br/>> needed. We continued with the Enbrel but at a higher dosage, and I
<br/>> finally got the NKu's down to <4.
<br/>> >
<br/>> > Just my story, it is probably an exception to the norm, but just to
<br/>> be certain, I believe that a biopsy is really the only true way to
<br/>> know. If your cytokines are high anyway, you may not want to do a
<br/>> biopsy and just go on the medication since that will be the treatment
<br/>> anyway, but if they are low, I don't think that is a 100% answer to no
<br/>> NKU's
<br/>> >
<br/>> > Best of luck to you
<br/>> > :)Liz
<br/>> >
<br/>

Liz,
<br/>
<br/>Thank you for the information. I think that is a good idea.. I will
<br/>ask my RE about it when it is closer to ttc.. I am in semi bench
<br/>right now since I may need to take INH :(
<br/>
<br/>My RE never mentioned anything about fibroids etc.. he did look for
<br/>endometriosis through u/s and he said he did not find any. I know it
<br/>is not the definite proof to rule out endo but just a little bit
<br/>piece of mind.
<br/>
<br/>Once again thanks.. and let us know what DB thinks..
<br/>
<br/>Regards,
<br/>
<br/>San
<br/>
<br/>--- In immunologysupport@yahoogroups.com, "Liz Lombardi"
<br/>wrote:
<br/>>
<br/>> Hi San,
<br/>> I think most u/s can detect and measure most all fibroids. I know
<br/>you get a much better view through hysteroscopy, though. I am glad I
<br/>did that. It was painless and not invasive at all.
<br/>> I, being "unexplained" (I hate that word) have always wondered
<br/>about the endo too. I do not have irregular periods at all and they
<br/>are light with no cramping, so I never thought to look into it, but
<br/>the myomectomy or laparoscopy I am thinking about having could
<br/>hopefully answer all these questions and remove whatever is in the
<br/>way.
<br/>>
<br/>> I agree that you shouldn't have the invasive surgery if you can
<br/>avoid it. In my case, I have always avoided it, but at 39, with 5
<br/>(possibly6) failures. (3 m/c's and 2 bfn), I have to start thinking
<br/>about it differently.
<br/>>
<br/>> Take care
<br/>> :)Liz
<br/>> ----- Original Message -----
<br/>> From: Mend0ta
<br/>> To: immunologysupport@yahoogroups.com
<br/>> Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2006 8:06 PM
<br/>> Subject: [immunologysupport] Re: Liz & Zoe-- NKU result and Beta
<br/>3 Integrin
<br/>>
<br/>>
<br/>> Hi Liz,
<br/>>
<br/>> Thanks for replying..
<br/>> I actually am not diagnosed with fibroids .. is it visible
<br/>through
<br/>> u/s or only through hysteroscopy?
<br/>> I am debating about endo too.. I don't have any symptoms but I
<br/>heard
<br/>> that one can have endo without any symptoms..
<br/>>
<br/>> If they were just blood check I would do it in a heartbeat but if
<br/>> they have to mess around with my reproductive system there is
<br/>always
<br/>> chance of making it worse right with scarring.. so I am torn :)
<br/>>
<br/>> Btw.. for Zoe -- my RE repeated CCA125 and it was normal ..so he
<br/>> thinks I don't have endo. It is good but I am not convinced :(
<br/>>
<br/>> Regards,
<br/>>
<br/>> San
<br/>> --- In immunologysupport@yahoogroups.com, "Liz Lombardi"
<br/>> wrote:
<br/>> >
<br/>> > Hi San,
<br/>> > I had a hysteroscopy about 9 months ago. I have always had
<br/>> fibroids and I wanted to see if they were "in the way". An RE did
<br/>> the procedure and in her opinion the fibroids were not a problem.
<br/>2
<br/>> other RE's (yes, I have consulted with 3 - how sad LOL!) agreed
<br/>that
<br/>> the fibroids look fine on u/s. In other words they are either
<br/>> outside the uterus or within the wall. But, I must say that with
<br/>all
<br/>> my m/c's and implantation failures, I think I will probably look
<br/>> into having a myomectomy done (by a really good surgeon) to
<br/>remove
<br/>> them all. A couple of them are lime size and one is lemon size.
<br/>I
<br/>> think that is way too big. The way I look at it, having the
<br/>surgery
<br/>> cannot hurt my chances of getting pregnant. I already have very
<br/>low
<br/>> chance, so maybe this could actually help. My ob/gyn has always
<br/>> thought I should get them removed, but I never listened to him
<br/>> always to my RE's.
<br/>> >
<br/>> > I don't know if my high levels of NKu's have been because I
<br/>have
<br/>> fibroids, but I know there has been discussion recently on this.
<br/>If
<br/>> removing them could help, I would do it in a heartbeat. I might e-
<br/>> mail DB about this later this week.
<br/>> >
<br/>> > Warm regards,
<br/>> > :)Liz
<br/>> > ----- Original Message -----
<br/>> > From: Mend0ta
<br/>> > To: immunologysupport@yahoogroups.com
<br/>> > Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2006 11:15 PM
<br/>> > Subject: [immunologysupport] Liz -- NKU result and Beta 3
<br/>> Integrin
<br/>> >
<br/>> >
<br/>> > Hi Liz..
<br/>> > thanks for the detail explanation.. I think when I can take
<br/>> Humira
<br/>> > that's what I'll do...biopsy to make sure everything is gone
<br/>> before
<br/>> > I take 3 months lupron for the integrin.
<br/>> >
<br/>> > Btw..do you ever have hysteroscopy done to check if you have
<br/>> polyps
<br/>> > or anything due to NKU?
<br/>> >
<br/>> > Regards,
<br/>> >
<br/>> > San
<br/>> >
<br/>> > --- In immunologysupport@yahoogroups.com, "Liz Lombardi"
<br/>> > wrote:
<br/>> > >
<br/>> > > Thank you San
<br/>> > > What I did was biopsy first and to DB's surprise (because
<br/>my
<br/>> > cytokines were low), found the NKu's. PSL lab sent me the
<br/>> results
<br/>> > and the picture stained to reveal all the NKU's. We saw 22 at
<br/>> least.
<br/>> > I started 50mg Enbrel and did another biopsy after 4 weeks.
<br/>The
<br/>> > NKu's went down to about 10 or 12 and DB increased my dosage
<br/>to
<br/>> > 75mg/ week. I did another biopsy after 4 more weeks and the
<br/>> stain
<br/>> > revealed just 1. Anything under 4 is good. I have continued
<br/>the
<br/>> > Enbrel throughout my IVF cycle. DB said no need to biopsy
<br/>again.
<br/>> > > Best regards
<br/>> > > :)Liz
<br/>> > > ----- Original Message -----
<br/>> > > From: Mend0ta
<br/>> > > To: immunologysupport@yahoogroups.com
<br/>> > > Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 7:08 PM
<br/>> > > Subject: [immunologysupport] Re: JANE and Others -- NKU
<br/>> result
<br/>> > and Beta 3 Integrin
<br/>> > >
<br/>> > >
<br/>> > > Hi Liz,
<br/>> > > Thank you so much for responding to my despair..
<br/>> > > So did the NKU really go away after Enbrel?
<br/>> > > Did you test every 4 weeks too or did you test after 2.5
<br/>> months?
<br/>> > > Did you test before and after stimming?
<br/>> > >
<br/>> > > INH is a drug to treat latent TB.. and it can cause liver
<br/>> > damage.. I
<br/>> > > just looked it up .. goodie :(
<br/>> > >
<br/>> > > Thanks again for your response...
<br/>> > >
<br/>> > > I wish you all the best for your cycle..
<br/>> > >
<br/>> > > Regards,
<br/>> > >
<br/>> > > San
<br/>> > >
<br/>> > > --- In immunologysupport@yahoogroups.com, "Liz Lombardi"
<br/>> > > wrote:
<br/>> > > >
<br/>> > > > San,
<br/>> > > > I had 22 NKu's after my biopsy. I chose to take Enbrel.
<br/>I
<br/>> was
<br/>> > on it
<br/>> > > for 2.5 months until the NKu's finally went away. I would
<br/>do
<br/>> a
<br/>> > biopsy
<br/>> > > every 4 weeks.
<br/>> > > > I do not know too much about the beta 3 integrin and
<br/>> needing
<br/>> > > Lupron, but I just did IVF with serious stims after
<br/>Lupron
<br/>> and
<br/>> > never
<br/>> > > flared, so it is not always certain that you will flare
<br/>with
<br/>> a
<br/>> > > stimulated cycle. I know the Lupron would be for a much
<br/>> longer
<br/>> > time
<br/>> > > and if it helps your uterus, I would do it if the Dr's
<br/>> agree. I
<br/>> > hate
<br/>> > > to see that you have to endure 9months of INH to rule out
<br/>> TB. I
<br/>> > don't
<br/>> > > know what INH is please excuse me, but I guess it is much
<br/>> better
<br/>> > to
<br/>> > > be safe than sorry.
<br/>> > > > I hope you get more answers and I am wishing you great
<br/>> hope to
<br/>> > > reach a success!!
<br/>> > > > Best to you!!
<br/>> > > > :)Liz
<br/>> > > > ----- Original Message -----
<br/>> > > > From: Mend0ta
<br/>> > > > To: immunologysupport@yahoogroups.com
<br/>> > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 9:12 PM
<br/>> > > > Subject: [immunologysupport] JANE and Others -- NKU
<br/>> result
<br/>> > and
<br/>> > > Beta 3 Integrin
<br/>> > > >
<br/>> > > >
<br/>> > > > Jane & Others,
<br/>> > > >
<br/>> > > > DB office called me yesterday with NKU result.. and I
<br/>> have
<br/>> > 12 !!!
<br/>> > > > Does anyone ever have it that high? I will have a
<br/>> consult
<br/>> > with DB
<br/>> > > on
<br/>> > > > April 12 to go over this result but I think it is
<br/>going
<br/>> to
<br/>> > be
<br/>> > > Humira
<br/>> > > > from what I read here.
<br/>> > > > Do you have an approximation how long I should be on
<br/>> Humira?
<br/>> > > >
<br/>> > > > I went to see my rheumy today to consult if I can
<br/>take
<br/>> > Humira.
<br/>> > > > He does not want me to take it before I go on 9
<br/>months
<br/>> of
<br/>> > INH.
<br/>> > > > He is afraid that I have latent TB because I grew up
<br/>in
<br/>> 3rd
<br/>> > world
<br/>> > > > country and my CT scan shows some scarring.
<br/>> > > >
<br/>> > > > He said that the mortality rate is 50% for TB and he
<br/>had
<br/>> a
<br/>> > > patient in
<br/>> > > > his clinic that died 3 months ago due to TB and
<br/>Humira..
<br/>> > what a
<br/>> > > way
<br/>> > > > to convince me of INH.
<br/>> > > >
<br/>> > > > I am being tested for Inferon(? spelling) but he said
<br/>> that
<br/>> > > regardless
<br/>> > > > of what the result is he still wants me on INH but he
<br/>> will
<br/>> > > consult
<br/>> > > > with his colleague from infectious disease to discuss
<br/>> how
<br/>> > long I
<br/>> > > > should be on INH.
<br/>> > > >
<br/>> > > > Next -- I also have result from my Beta 3 Integrin
<br/>> biopsy. I
<br/>> > had
<br/>> > > it
<br/>> > > > done the same day when the RE collected sample for
<br/>NKU.
<br/>> > > > Beta 3 integrin is a new test but it is essentially
<br/>the
<br/>> glue
<br/>> > that
<br/>> > > > cause the embies to stick. So for those of you who
<br/>have
<br/>> > never get
<br/>> > > > successful implantation I suggest to test for this.I
<br/>> think
<br/>> > there
<br/>> > > is
<br/>> > > > only one clinic that tests this.. called Adeza.. it
<br/>> costs
<br/>> > $425.
<br/>> > > >
<br/>> > > > It turns out that I don't have the integrin either.
<br/>This
<br/>> is
<br/>> > > though
<br/>> > > > can be treated by using Lupron for 3 months.. and
<br/>they
<br/>> have
<br/>> > high
<br/>> > > > success from it although the number of observation is
<br/>> still
<br/>> > small.
<br/>> > > >
<br/>> > > > Unfortunately they don't know how long the integrin
<br/>> stays ..
<br/>> > > study
<br/>> > > > shows that if you do IVF right away after the end of
<br/>3
<br/>> > months
<br/>> > > Lupron,
<br/>> > > > the chance is about 80% pg but if you do it 2 months
<br/>> after
<br/>> > end of
<br/>> > > > Lupron then the chance is only 47%.
<br/>> > > >
<br/>> > > > So now I am confused on what to do because that means
<br/>> using
<br/>> > > Lupron
<br/>> > > > for 3 months and then stimming.. would not that cause
<br/>> super
<br/>> > high
<br/>> > > > chance of flaring? While immune patient is said to be
<br/>> better
<br/>> > off
<br/>> > > with
<br/>> > > > FET due to low stims?
<br/>> > > >
<br/>> > > > I guess this would be the order for me now..
<br/>> > > > INH for 9 months
<br/>> > > > Humira until NKU gone.. how long after Humira do you
<br/>> retest
<br/>> > > biopsy?
<br/>> > > > Start Lupron for 3 months
<br/>> > > > Stimming?
<br/>> > > >
<br/>> > > > I am so afraid of flare though because I think I have
<br/>> high
<br/>> > chance
<br/>> > > of
<br/>> > > > it being category 1-5.
<br/>> > > >
<br/>> > > > Please advise...
<br/>> > > >
<br/>> > > > Thanks for your help.
<br/>> > > >
<br/>> > > > Regards,
<br/>> > > >
<br/>> > > > San
<br/>> > > >
<br/>

I had 22 NKu's after my biopsy. I chose to take Enbrel.
<br/> I
<br/> > was
<br/> > > on it
<br/> > > > for 2.5 months until the NKu's finally went away. I would
<br/> do
<br/> > a
<br/> > > biopsy
<br/> > > > every 4 weeks.
<br/> 文章来自: 播种网社区( www.bozhong.com) 详文参考：http://bbs.bozhong.com/thread-1213160-151-1.html

newbeginin 发表于 2013-1-27 18:21
<br/>我做 了试管。

<br/><br/>多少天了   恭喜你   苦尽甘来了   一共花了多少钱   我也考虑一下

【药品名称】
<br/>通用名称： 甲钴胺片
<br/>商品名称： 弥可保
<br/>英文名称：Mecobalamin Tablets
<br/>汉语拼音：Jiagu'an Pian
<br/>【性状】
<br/>本剂为白色糖衣片，除去糖衣后，显粉红色。
<br/>【适应症】
<br/>周围神经病。
<br/>【规格】
<br/>0.5mg
<br/>【用法用量】
<br/>口服。通常成人一次1片(0.5mg)，一日3次，可根据年龄、症状酌情增减。
<br/>编辑本段不良反应在总病例15,180例中，146例(0.96%)出现不良反应。(调查不良反应发生频率结束时)
<br/>胃肠道：偶有(5%～0.1%)食欲不振、恶心、呕吐、腹泻；
<br/>过敏：少见( < 0.1%)皮疹。
<br/>【禁忌】
<br/>禁用于对甲钴胺或处方中任何辅料有过敏史的患者。
<br/>编辑本段注意事项【注意事项】
<br/>1. 如果服用一个月以上无效，则无需继续服用。
<br/>2. 从事汞及其化合物的工作人员，不宜长期大量服用本品。
<br/>【孕妇及哺乳期妇女用药】
<br/>虽然甲钴胺在动物试验中未表现致畸作用，但其对怀孕妇女的安全性尚不明确。
<br/>尚不明确甲钴胺是否通过妇女乳汁分泌，但动物试验报告甲钴胺有乳汁分泌。本品在哺乳期妇女的安全性尚不明确。
<br/>【儿童用药】
<br/>未进行该项实验且无可靠参考文献。
<br/>【老年用药】
<br/>由于老年人机能减退，建议在医生指导下酌情减少用量。
<br/>【药物相互作用】
<br/>未进行该项实验且无可靠参考文献。
<br/>【药物过量】
<br/>尚无药物过量的经验。如果发生药物过量，应进行对症、支持治疗。
<br/>编辑本段药理毒理药理作用
<br/>本品是一种内源性的辅酶B12，参与一碳单位循环，在由同型半胱氨酸合成蛋氨酸的转甲基反应过程中起重要作用。动物实验发现本品比氰钴胺易于进入神经元细胞器，参与脑细胞和脊髓神经元胸腺嘧啶核苷的合成，促进叶酸的利用和核酸代谢，且促进核酸和蛋白质合成作用较氰钴胺强。本品能促进轴突运输功能和轴突再生，使链脲霉素诱导的糖尿病大鼠坐骨神经轴突骨架蛋白的运输正常化，对药物引起的神经退变具有抑制作用，如阿霉素、丙烯酰胺、长春新碱引起的神经退变及自发高血压大鼠神经疾病等。在大鼠组织培养中发现本品可以促进卵磷脂合成和神经元髓鞘形成。本品能使延迟的神经突触传递和神经递质减少恢复正常，通过提高神经纤维兴奋性恢复终板电位诱导，能使饲以胆碱缺乏饲料的大鼠脑内乙酰胆碱恢复到正常水平。
<br/>毒理研究
<br/>生殖毒性：在大鼠和小鼠致畸敏感期经口给予本品0.2、2.0、20mg/kg/d，胎仔和新生仔中未见异常和致畸征象。
<br/>编辑本段药代动力学1. 一次性给药
<br/>健康人一次口服120μg、1,500μg，无论哪个剂量，均在给药后3小时达到最高血药浓度，其吸收呈剂量依赖性。半衰期、血清中总B12浓度的增加部分及△AUC0如下表所示。服药后8小时，尿中总B12的排泄量为用药后24小时排泄量的40%～80%。
<br/>给药量 tmax
<br/>（hour） Cmax
<br/>（pg/ml） △Cmax
<br/>（pg/ml） △Cmax%
<br/>（%） △AUC0
<br/>（hour·pg/ml） t1/2
<br/>（hour）
<br/>120μg 2.8±0.2 743±47 37±15 5.1±2.1 168±58 计算不出
<br/>1500μg 3.6±0.5 972±55 255±51 36.0±7.9 2033±510 12.5
<br/>
<br/>注：标记的一次口服1,500μg给药量是日本厚生省批准以外的用量。
<br/>※1： 给药前值到给药后12小时的实测值增加部分，按梯形规则公式计算。
<br/>※2： 由给药后24～48小时的平均值算出。[1]
<br/>2. 连续给药
<br/>观察健康人连续12周每天口服1,500μg，至停药后4周的血清中总B12的变化值。给药4周后其值为给药前的约2倍，以后逐渐增加，到12周后达约2.8倍，即使中止给药4周后仍显示为给药前的约1.8倍

试管很少，2，3w，但治疗很多钱。

楼主，你试管成功了吗？我也想做啊，不过担心这，又担心那啊，好纠结啊，也好烦心啊！

Wanting to share my numbers.....did blood work today.....prog is 40 which is
<br/>good? Hcg was 900....it was 157 on fri.....and WBC was only 18 so happy that I
<br/>am able to stay on neupogen still! my RE wanted me to stop if I got to 30 on WBC
<br/>......last time I did neupogen my WBC got to 30 in one week......
<br/>

恭喜楼主啊，希望自己也早日成功啦！

ot Jane, but thought I'd share my experience.
<br/>
<br/>I had a number of NK assays done which revealed high NK activity, but
<br/>during what ended up being a successful FET, my 50:1 was 15.3. Chris
<br/>described it as borderline. I was really concerned about flaring
<br/>upon implantation, & was told 1 IVIg several days before ET would be
<br/>sufficient protection. I ended up scheduling it 4 days before ET &
<br/>the cycle worked.
<br/>
<br/>My NKs were quite high with my + beta, so I immediately scheduled
<br/>another IVIg & ended up doing IVIg every 3 wks. until week 16 or
<br/>so.
<br/>